In New Orleans, Louisiana, just on the banks of the mighty Mississippi, you’ll find Jackson square. It’s an imposing landmark. The all white facade and majestic turrets of St. Louis Cathedral tower over a beautifully manicured circular garden, the fairytale-like grandeur of it masking the centuries old site of public executions and military parades. In the center of the square is a statue of President Andrew Jackson on horseback, hero of the Battle of New Orleans and namesake of the square itself. If you could go back in time 200 years and seat yourself outside the church in Jackson Square to watch the goings on, you would often spy a woman there. She attended mass at St. Louis Cathedral daily, ministered to the prisoners in the building just behind it, assisted the nuns with their work in the hospitals and orphanages. You would think, what an incredibly pious and noble woman, how devoted she is to her faith and to the people of this city. This woman’s name? Marie Laveau. And if you’ve ever heard of Marie Laveau, you’re probably scratching your head right now. Marie Laveau, like, the voodoo queen? What is she doing at the Catholic church? I thought she was like a con artist swindler or a pagan witch or something? But did you know, there’s a whole lot more to her story than what you’ve been told? Let’s fix that.  

 

Hello, I’m Shea LaFountaine and you’re listening to History Fix where I discuss lesser known true stories from history you won’t be able to stop thinking about. It’s February, which means it’s Black History Month in the United States. So, all month long I’m coming at you with interesting Black history stories, except for next week though, I’m gonna squeeze in one about Valentine’s Day because, I mean, who even was St. Valentine? Right? But otherwise this month will feature interesting and impressive Black characters and stories from history. And, I’m going to be honest, Black history is difficult to accurately report. And that’s because most of it was never written down. For much of American history, at least, it was actually illegal for black people to learn to read and write. And the white men sure as heck weren’t recording their stories or even making note of them in official records, not by name anyway. So you can imagine the difficulty in tracking down this sort of unrecorded history. Much of it is word of mouth, stories that have likely been twisted and exaggerated with each retelling. 

 

And that is certainly true of the story I’m going to tell you today. Marie Laveau, the Voodoo queen of New Orleans is almost a mythical being today. She herself was illiterate. She could not read or write so she is shrouded in mystery and a lot of the stories that are told about her are not actually true. Some of these stories come from admirers hoping to bolster her power and influence, some come from haters trying to cast her as an evil devil worshiping witch. Today, I’m going to try my best to separate fact from fiction so we get a better idea of who Marie Laveau actually was, or I guess I should say who the Marie Laveaus actually were. Because there were actually two different Marie Laveaus that sort of melded into one person, one Voodoo queen, the younger inheriting the title from the older and basically assuming her identity as well in the eyes of history to create an image of immortality. We’ll unpack that more later. 

 

First let me tell you about my New Orleans trip. I went to New Orleans for the weekend a couple weeks ago for my sister’s bachelorette. It was my second time going there, Joey and I actually got engaged in New Orleans back in 2017. So it’s a special place for me. But honestly, it’s just a special place in general. It is unique in all the world. You will not find another place like New Orleans. It’s distinctly different from every other city on Earth. It’s dirty and debaucherous and mostly crumbling into ruins, sinking into the mud of the Mississippi River bank. But at the same time, it has this weird shabby chic-ness to it. It’s unexpectedly fancy and refined. The whole city is beautiful garbage. It’s Derelict - and yes that is a Zoolander reference and the credit goes to my sister, the bride to be, Audrey because she nailed. It is derelict. There’s no other way to describe it. 

 

So, one of the things we did during this bachelorette weekend was a haunted pub crawl because duh. We walked around the French Quarter, stopping at some really cool bars, some local hangout type hole in the wall bars. There were some ghost stories told but really it was very history heavy which, of course, I loved. I learned a ton about the history of New Orleans, some of which I’ll be sharing with you in this episode. But first I want to introduce our tour guide on this haunted pub crawl, Tanya. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

Tanya was phenomenal. She’s a colorful character y’all and she really made it fun. I highly recommend booking a tour with Tanya if you ever visit New Orleans and of course I’ll let you know how to find her in the description, there will be a link down there. But Tanya spoke pretty extensively about the Black history of New Orleans and she did a wonderful job trying to rectify some of the misconceptions and uncover some of the stuff that’s just gotten lost, as so much of Black history has.

 

[Tanya interview]

 

The history of New Orleans is part of what makes the city so incredibly unique and, like Tanya said, so very different from the rest of the American south. First, of course, like most of the Americas, the area that is now New Orleans was inhabited by indigenous people. I just want to recognize that before we go any further. When Europeans arrived in the early 1700s, they noted several villages along the Mississippi River. Historians estimate that tens of thousands of Native Americans lived in Louisiana, and had for over 10,000 years. If you aren’t familiar with the area, it has special advantages for human civilization. New Orleans is near the mouth of the Mississippi River, 100 miles upstream, to be exact, from where the Mississippi empties into the Gulf of Mexico. This river starts all the way up in northern Minnesota and flows for over 2,300 miles, cutting across essentially the entire country. So that’s a big deal for transportation, the shipping of goods, right, trade, drinking water, fishing, it’s a food source. It’s a pretty good spot to set up camp for a lot of reasons. It’s also not a great spot to set up camp for other reasons, but we’ll come back to that. 

 

So there were thriving communities of indigenous Americans in the area for all these reasons. When Europe started exploring and colonizing the Americas, the area caught the attention of the French. Now, we know the Spanish were all over Central and South America just conquering things left and right. And we know the English were setting up shop on the east coast of what is now the US, the Dutch as well. France is in Canada, they’re dabbling in the Caribbean, gotta tap into that sugar market, and they set their sights on Louisiana as well. It wasn’t until 1718 that the city of New Orleans was founded on some high ground near the mouth of the river. Although, I will say, it does not feel like high ground today. It feels like you're in a hole in the ground. And you kind of are because there has been some serious sinkage going on in the last few hundred years. The area also gets just completely worked by Hurricanes pretty regularly. I mean Hurricane Katrina back in 2005 is probably the most memorable but that was certainly nothing new for New Orleans. Actually, the first city of New Orleans was completely destroyed by a hurricane in 1722, just a few years after it was founded, and then rebuilt in the grid pattern you’ll still find in the French Quarter today. So, while it seems like a great spot for a city, there’s definitely more than one catch and I’m sure France was pretty quickly aware of that and maybe not loving this decision as much as they initially thought they would. 

 

France actually gave New Orleans to Spain in 1762 and the circumstances surrounding that gift, if you will, are pretty complicated but I’m going to brief you on it because it’s actually really interesting. So this is during the 7 years war, mid 1700’s, Great Britain and France and Spain are behaving like toddlers snatching each other’s toys. For real, it’s like very childish. They all have their little colonies in the quote “New World” they quote “discovered” and they’re just really not good at sharing. Great Britain takes Canada and some Caribbean islands from France. And now Spain is feeling a little threatened. They’re like “uh uh buddy, you’re taking way too much land. You’re creeping up on us. Yes we have most of Central and South America and some islands and stuff, but, you know, we’d like to keep that healthy lead in this world domination competition we’ve all entered.” So France and Spain form an alliance against the British. Britain retaliates by taking Havana, which is like Spain’s baby. This is a massive loss for Spain. It’s their main port. And France is like “oh, umm, sorry bout that guys. Thanks for picking our side and all though, we really appreciate the alliance. You know what, take New Orleans. You can have it. We feel really bad about the whole Havana thing. For real, take New Orleans.” and they ceded New Orleans to Spain in 1762. But there’s more to it of course because France is a Mean Girl and it’s never that simple with Mean Girls. 

 

In 1763, the three dueling toddlers sign the Treaty of Paris to end the seven years war. Britain gives Havana back to Spain in exchange for Florida. And France AKA Regina George, gives Britain Louisiana east of the Mississippi river in exchange for some of its Caribbean islands that it had lost. Okay, so New Orleans is now, supposedly, half French and half British. The problem being, of course, that the whole city of New Orleans actually belonged to Spain and had, unbeknownst to Britain, for a year now. It was not France’s to give away. So I think, if you ask me, I don’t think France was just being nice to Spain and giving them this city as a consolation for their losses. I think they knew they were ultimately going to lose it to the British in this war and they didn’t wanna. But they still wanted their islands back. So they slyly passed New Orleans on to Spain and then conveniently left out that detail during peace negotiations as a final F you to Britain. They’ll also get New Orleans back in about 40 years so, really they just gave it to Spain for safekeeping.

 

So New Orleans belongs to Spain now and they make some much needed improvements including replacing the old wooden buildings that keep burning down because they’re made of highly flammable cypress wood with brick buildings, many of which still stand in the French Quarter today, albeit rather wonky and slanted as their foundations continue to sink into the river bank. So far we’ve had three groups in New Orleans, three distinct cultures - the indigenous people, the French, and now the Spanish. But we also have enslaved people from Africa, of course. The first ships of enslaved Africans arrived in New Orleans in 1719, just after the city was founded. And it became a major center for the trading of enslaved Africans. But it was a little different here for these enslaved people than it was in the British colonies. The French and Spanish, especially the Spanish had much looser conceptions of racial categories. It was much less black and white, literally and figuratively, than the way the British and soon to be Americans saw things. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

Tanya was sure to point out the indigenous influence there, which thank you for that. 

Because this knowledge of chicory root and its uses came from indigenous groups in the area. And, actually, enslaved Africans and indigenous people in the New Orleans area had, kind of a special bond. They were both oppressed by the European settlers and they helped each other in many ways. And if you’ve ever seen Mardi Gras festivities in New Orleans then you’ve probably seen the Black Mardi Gras Indians. Basically, Black people create these incredible, elaborate and super colorful Native American inspired costumes, they are stunning. And they dress up like Native Americans for Mardi Gras and that is not cultural appropriation, it’s actually a nod to that sort of unofficial alliance between the enslaved Africans and the indigenous groups in New Orleans. They are recognizing that bond, that friendship that their ancestors had with the indigenous people and it’s out of respect that they incorporate indigenous culture, which was otherwise completely destroyed and run out of the area. 

 

It was much easier in New Orleans for enslaved people to purchase their own freedom. They could become free by defending the colony or earning money through various entrepreneurial endeavors like selling coffee, even teaching their enslaver’s children could earn them their freedom. So there is this growing population of free people of color in New Orleans and they are not viewed the same as free Black people in the United States. This Spanish ruled culture is very different. In New Orleans, they are legally equivalent to white people and enjoy many of the same privileges including enslaving people. Yes, free Black people in New Orleans enslaved other not free Black people. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

So many purchased enslaved people with the intention of freeing them or offering protection. Some of them also just became enslavers themselves and became very wealthy. They were cultured and educated and sophisticated. Spanish New Orleans even accepted mixed race relationships. Not officially, you couldn’t get married, but there were many common law marriages between Black people and white people and it was fine. It was acceptable. There was a distinction though, I should add, between light skinned and dark skinned Black people where those with lighter skin were more respected than those with darker skin. There was also a distinction between Creoles, a mixed race Black person born in New Orleans, and those born in Africa. Creoles were much higher ranking than African born Black people. 

 

Now this will all change, of course, when New Orleans is acquired by the United States in the Louisiana Purchase. It becomes part of the American South and the American South in the 1800s is not a great place to be if you are Black or even a little bit Black. It’s all the same to the Americans. Black people have no rights, they are barely viewed as humans at that time. But that 40ish years that Spain ruled New Orleans created a very interesting and different racial dynamic that allowed for African culture to shine through and leave its mark in ways that it couldn’t in most other places. So today, the culture of New Orleans is a blend of Native American, French, Spanish, African, and American. And also Haitian. Because after the Haitian revolution of 1791, many formerly enslaved Black people from there flocked to New Orleans because of how free Black people were treated and able to live and thrive and succeed.  

 

So this is the world into which Marie Laveau was born probably in 1801 although some records say 1794. Marie was a free, mixed race, woman of color - a Creole woman born, most likely in the French Quarter. Her mother’s name was Marguerite Darcantrel (and I probably said that wrong, sorry). She was supposedly part Black and part Native American. Marie’s father was a wealthy businessman named Charles Laveau. Most assume, without doing much digging, that her father was a white man but Tanya thinks differently. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

Marie was mostly raised by her grandmother, Catherine. She grew up a devout Catholic, attending mass daily. In 1819 she married a free Black man from Haiti named Jacques Paris. There is some question of whether or not Marie and Jacques had any children. Many researchers believe they did not however apparently there are baptismal records from St. Louis Cathedral listing two daughters - Marie Angelie Paris baptized in 1823 and Felicite Paris baptized in 1824 - both with Marie Laveau and Jacques Paris listed as their parents. However that’s the only record of these girls. They just disappear after that. So I don’t know if they died young, or what. Felicite was noted as being 7 years old at her baptism in 1824. 

 

Interestingly enough, Jacques Paris, Marie’s husband also disappeared. There’s no official record of his death but he is listed as deceased on Felicite’s baptism record. Which means that he was already dead by 1824. There is a rumor that Marie killed her husband. Here’s what Tanya thinks about that:

 

[Tanya interview]

 

And she will go by the Widow Paris for the rest of her life. But she will find love again with a wealthy white man from a prominent New Orleans family named Louis Chirstophe Dumensil (dumineel) de Glapion. They could not actually get married because he was white and she was mixed race but they were in a common law marriage for 30 years and had a lot kids. There is some question as to how many kids they actually had. Some rumors say up to 15 kids. But it was probably more like 7. Several of them died in infancy and it seems like only a few lived to adulthood. 

 

So how does a good Catholic woman who attended mass every day become the Voodoo queen of New Orleans? 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

As a devout Catholic woman herself, Marie was trusted enough by the Catholic community that it appears they sort of just turned a blind eye when she began incorporating Voodoo practices into her work. Because she was helping people, she was healing people and doing a lot of good and at a certain point the methods she’s using to do that, the means become trivial.  

 

New Orleans Voodoo is the only Afro-Catholic religion in North America. It’s very unique, just like the city itself, blending traditions and rituals brought over by enslaved people from West Africa. But in New Orleans, where enslaved Africans could more easily gain their freedom and become respected members of society, these traditions and rituals survived, and were strengthened by the influx of formerly enslaved Africans that came over from Haiti after the revolution to join the free Black communities in New Orleans. But this revolution terrified white people and Voodoo began to be associated with it. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

And this reminds me of the oath drinks Dr. Smith mentioned in the rum episode, episode 37, these oath drinks that were taken just before slave revolts in the Caribbean. But blood oaths were a Voodoo ritual and this caused a lot of fear among white people. They feared the religion could incite more rebellions. Therefore, voodoo was twisted into an evil demonic practice in the eyes of society. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

And Marie certainly seems to have used voodoo for good. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

But unfortunately, she’s not always remembered that way. Marie is often portrayed on TV and in movies as more of a swindler. Local author John S. Kendall wrote of Marie in his 1922 book “History of New Orleans,” quote “After dark, you might see carriages roll up to Marie’s door, and veiled ladies, elegantly attired, descend and hurry in to buy what the old witch had for sale. An arrant fraud, no doubt, but money poured into her lap down to the last day of her evil life.” end quote. And that is certainly a completely different view of Marie then what Tanya expressed. How can the perception of one person be so opposite? 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

But, one thing you should know is that there was actually more than one Marie Laveau. Yeah, plot twist. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

So, when the first Marie Laveau retired, one of her daughters, also named Marie, took her place as the next Voodoo queen. But it was more than just taking on her position in the community, Marie II sort of assumed her mother’s identity and, because of that, the lives of the two women and what they did have blended together, muddling and confusing history. Some think it was actually Marie II who was the hairdresser turned entrepreneur and not the original Marie Laveau. It does seem as though Marie II’s less empathetic approach has marred her mother’s reputation. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

Another consequence of Marie II assuming her mother’s identity was the creation of this image of immortality and mysticism that Marie had. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

And now I have to look into New Orleans vampires. Maybe I’ll save that for next year’s Spooktober. But Tanya mentioned that voodoo died off some with the retirement of the original Marie Laveau but it certainly isn’t gone from the city entirely. It’s still very much a part of the vibrant cultural tapestry that is New Orleans. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

What strikes me the most about Marie Laveau is the way she so seamlessly blended different cultures, religions, ethnicities, and ideas together. Here we have a Black woman, but she’s not just Black. She’s Black, she’s white, she’s indigenous. She’s accepted by the Black community in New Orleans, one with that community and also she rubs shoulders with the aristocrats, the wealthy white and Black planters and politicians through her father and husband’s connections. But it’s not just through the connections of these men either, she holds her own with these people because she’s powerful. She’s doing things, people follow her. They respect her, put her up on a pedestal. And yet, she’s in the prisons and the orphanages, the hospitals. She’s in the trenches treating yellow fever patients. She’s in church every single day, twice a day, and then she’s turning around concocting herbal remedies from West Africa, sacrificing chickens and leading ritualistic ceremonies in Congo square and yet the church still accepts her, still welcomes her with open arms. There’s no gallows, no witch trials or accusations of heresy. She blends the two practices, Voodoo and Catholicism, in the same way she blended Black and white, rich and poor. It’s really remarkable and it’s no wonder her daughter had such a hard time filling her shoes. 

 

[Tanya interview]

 

“The epitome of a New Orleans lady,” indeed. Because that is New Orleans. It’s a beautiful blend of contradictions, as elegant and refined as it is dingy and derelict, so many cultures blended together to create a place that is truly one of a kind, a place where being one of a kind is good, encouraged even, where things aren’t quite so black and white. It’s refreshing and we have Marie Laveau, in part, to thank for that. 

 

Thank you all so very much for listening to History Fix and a huge thank you to Tanya for sharing her knowledge. If you’d like to connect with Tanya, you can find her on Facebook, Tanya de (duh) Fazen which I’ll link in the description. You can also do one of her tours with Crawl New Orleans if you’re ever in New Orleans which I highly recommend. We did a haunted pub crawl but she also does a wicked women’s history tour which sounds amazing. I’ll also link the Crawl New Orleans website in the description for you. I hope you found this story interesting and maybe you even learned something new. Be sure to follow my instagram @historyfixpodcast to see some images that go along with this episode and to stay on top of new episodes as they drop. Those images are also always available through my website historyfixpodcast.com. I’d also really appreciate it if you’d rate and follow this podcast on whatever app you’re using to listen, and go ahead and tell a friend or two about it, that’ll make it much easier to get your next fix.  

 

Information used in this episode was sourced from Encyclopedia Britannica, ghostcitytours.com, JSTOR, History.com, National Park Service, the Historic New Orleans Collection, and a Stuff You Missed in History Class podcast episode about Marie Laveau. As always, links to these sources can be found in the show notes.